tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post8858899808222743946..comments2023-10-10T05:17:55.737-07:00Comments on Crushed By Ingsoc: A Guest Post by David Anthony- The 'N' WordCrushedhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02479751225625007588noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-32333279826491560722007-05-23T11:20:00.000-07:002007-05-23T11:20:00.000-07:00Excellent post BUT ( and here comes the doom) Ric...Excellent post BUT ( and here comes the doom) Richard Prior tried to do just that but it had a back lash he didn't anticipate and only caused more people to use him as an example why it was okay to call people such a filthy word.<br>Therefore , black people themselves ( as highlihted by your example) cannot fumigate this word themselves but nor can whites.<br>It is a word, as you said, that one almost has to have permission to use ( as in only the blacks) BUT they use it in either an apologetic and inferior way ( like Prior) or with the same degradation that 50 cent does.<br>Whites can never get beyond just them uttering it does to the word itself.<br>I have to admit I think this is the single word I hate most in all our language. I don't think we can ever de- stigmatize it.<br>I recall when Roise Parks died recently . I was in a chatroom and was talking of the role she had played in social change( the little people, who unlike Martin Luther King Jr. do not get the true recognition for their contribution that they deserve)and few if any knew who she was.<br>That's incredibly sad and a terrible injustice to her!More than anything Rosie Parks proved that ONE person can sometimes make a huge difference.<br>And I would like to add, she , a poor middle aged maid, did more to abolish segragation in that one cat then MLK was able to do.<br>Although, I much admire him.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-26387237932256912982007-05-23T11:31:00.000-07:002007-05-23T11:31:00.000-07:00It's a tricky one, Ms Uber, because it penetrates ...It's a tricky one, Ms Uber, because it penetrates beyond the words themselves.<br>For example I remember Having an argument with a black friend once, where he maintained (contrary to the idea that is black people who keep going on about this) that it the terms 'White' bastard and 'black' bastard were both just as offensive.<br><br>But that's not true.<br><br>In any insult, what matters is;<br>a, What was implied by the insulter.<br>b. The power of that implication over the insulted.<br><br>In the case of the insult 'white' bastard a) can only mean 'You're different' and b) has no more power than 'shut up you ginget twat'<br><br>In the second instance a) means 'I believe you to be inferior because of your colour, whereas b) involves the knowledge by black people that this belief system long maintained a historical reality that they are still escaping from.<br><br>Problem is withy all of this, is while words maintain the power to hurt and have these connotations, it is never possiblt to truly escapes the concepts which gave them this power.<br><br>So no easy answers.<br><br>I don't see a simple solution as to how we can move on, but move on we must.<br><br>Especially with the renewed danger of Far right groups, not just here, but over much of Europe.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-91578217510109179632007-05-23T11:39:00.000-07:002007-05-23T11:39:00.000-07:00Thanks uber mouth and Crushed, interesting points ...Thanks uber mouth and Crushed, interesting points both. Rosa Parks is just as much a heroine as MLK is a hero.<br><br>Maybe we should not be looking towards black people to solve the problem, maybe it is us as white people who have to be the first to break through that stigmatised barrier.<br><br>We are responsible for giving the word its meaning in the first place.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-188897046946137002007-05-23T12:13:00.000-07:002007-05-23T12:13:00.000-07:00Yes, I agree wiht both of you( let's have a 3 some...Yes, I agree wiht both of you( let's have a 3 some lol) BUT I especially liked the Brit's mention that white bastard or honky have no real offence attached to them for thye are deemed to be , or believe themselves to be, the superior colour anyway. So, it loses it's meaning like a poor person calling a toff derogatory names based on their superior education and finances.<br>Did either of you read " Black Like me"?Forget the author but what a great insight for a white to have a glimpse of what it must be like to be black.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-61917478037257301822007-05-23T12:43:00.000-07:002007-05-23T12:43:00.000-07:00"Gay people learned long ago that the way to remov..."Gay people learned long ago that the way to remove hatred and venom from a word was to claim it as their own and ridicule it. It's at a point now where the people hurling those abusive words at gay people are made to look ridiculous, rather than their desired intent."<br><br>Amazing, I disagree :)<br><br>Gay people 'claimed' words as their own, did that actually help? Not really, now there are simply other words that are used.<br><br>Someone else is posting on words today and as I said there, no matter what you do to 'words' it WILL.NOT.HELP ;) It isn't the words that do it, it is the people.<br><br>Remember the sticks and stones rhyme that children USED to repeat? It is perfectly apt now. Thicker skin will make the words lose their 'bite'.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-7893673729439244042007-05-23T12:46:00.000-07:002007-05-23T12:46:00.000-07:00Excellent. I agree with DA about words and their ...Excellent. I agree with DA about words and their associations and also that words need to "morph" because language is living. But I can also see why he has not used the word in question in the post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-70750190890405053352007-05-23T12:52:00.000-07:002007-05-23T12:52:00.000-07:00Lord Nazh said...It isn't the words that do it, it...Lord Nazh said...<br><i>It isn't the words that do it, it is the people.</i><br><br>Isn't that what I implyed in the post? Words are only labels, they have no meaning in themselves. They are simply sounds which register associations in our minds.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-28418920103349042022007-05-23T14:04:00.000-07:002007-05-23T14:04:00.000-07:00Words are more than just labels. They are a label ...Words are more than just labels. They are a label to a box in which we put a number of concepts.<br>Words conceptualise these. Thing is, we all keep slightly different assortments of concepts in our boxes.<br>The word Bombay, for example to me includes amogst it's concepts a reminder of the burning of Bombay Street in Belfast. That probably doesn't occur to any of the rest of you under the concept of Bombay.<br><br>A word carries a lot more than just it's primary meaning.<br><br>Labour originally meant work.<br>Parasite meant a beggar.<br>A factory was a trading post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-5886915758928220342007-05-23T15:39:00.000-07:002007-05-23T15:39:00.000-07:00I've tried to look up the etymology of the 'N' wor...I've tried to look up the etymology of the 'N' word and as far as I can see it is nothing more than a contraction of the Spanish word for 'black person' - negro. The offensiveness of the 'N' word is purely derived from the manner in which it was spoken which was traditionally for it to be spat contemptuously. In itself the word has no particular connotation other than to broadly describe a person's race.<br><br>Do we baulk at using the word negro ? When was the last time you used it ? I notice that in modern parlance we now use cumbersome terms such as Afro-Caribean, Afro-American. Has the virtual abolition of the 'N' word sounded the death knell for 'negro'too ?<br><br>I find it difficult to say the 'N' word let alone type it. Something within me is programmed to reject it. So effective has been the subliminal propaganda that I can't remember how this programming occured - no one said to me directly "you must not use the 'N' word". So how did it happen ? This bothers me greatly. We have undergone some kind of mind censoring - Orwellian Ingsoc.<br><br>We now have only one taboo word in an age where taboo is regarded as anachronistic - this hands great privilege to a minority group and perpetuates their claim to victimhood behind which significant numbers of them hide in order to avoid justified scrutiny. <br><br>As a society of justice(purportedly) we have been brainwashed into believing that racialism is the worst offence and so crimes are elevated to a much higher degree of seriousness if there is a racialist content. I posit that racialism isn't the worst offence - that Jade Goody (racist) should recieve more widespread condemnation than Pete Townsend (paedophile) ought to set alarm bells ringing.<br><br>There is only one taboo and the white man will continue to be beaten with it mercilessly and in this thread self-flagelatingly. This taboo is the baby of left-wing lawyers and not black people who so often use the 'N' word against each other.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-1084121926898357302007-05-23T15:57:00.000-07:002007-05-23T15:57:00.000-07:00There are two strict taboos in modern English cult...There are two strict taboos in modern English culture actually - the other is that you don't dis the Prophet Mohammed.<br><br>Our own culture and sensibilities don't need defending, so they tell us.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-22597171744391906252007-05-23T20:19:00.000-07:002007-05-23T20:19:00.000-07:00Hmmm... I think this is probably the one thinking ...Hmmm... I think this is probably the one thinking blog I read (the rest are for entertainment). I thought at first that the 'N' word was 'No' - then as I read, couldn't guess, til the last paragraph, when it hit me. Different cultures, I guess.... we hardly see blacks in my country, and no one would think of calling them anything but 'black'.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-52032603567926983262007-05-23T21:33:00.000-07:002007-05-23T21:33:00.000-07:00And here I thought we were talking about Nardos.And here I thought we were talking about Nardos.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-72746452356255935622007-05-24T02:48:00.000-07:002007-05-24T02:48:00.000-07:00Are you talking about "black"?Whoopi Goldberg said...Are you talking about "black"?<br><br>Whoopi Goldberg said she was not an African American - she was an American. If you wanted to call her anything, call her black.<br><br>Seems the most sensible approach.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-71620100282535799752007-05-24T03:50:00.000-07:002007-05-24T03:50:00.000-07:00I use the term 'black' too, James. As with homose...I use the term 'black' too, James. <br><br>As with homosexuality we change the use of one word 'gay' to avoid the use of another word designed specifically for purpose - now I hear children use 'gay' as a form of derogation. Black pertains to a shade of colour but now denotes race too - do you ever feel slightly awkward when you say the word 'black' in the presence of black people ? Negro was a perfectly safe word until someone got tetchy about it.<br><br>Is the attachment of 'black' to 'bastard' any worse than 'white' to 'bastard' ? I think I could predict the way our police would deal with that so I won't be testing the theory.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-34736710087701164902007-05-24T05:37:00.000-07:002007-05-24T05:37:00.000-07:00Trouble is, in this country people get upset if yo...Trouble is, in this country people get upset if you call them 'black' people.<br><br>That is almost (but not quite) as bad as the 'n' word. Of course you can't call them 'colored' people either, that morph'd into a bad word. <br><br>Now it is 'african-american' even though they aren't from africa (while there ancestors may be, I don't recall talking to them) and 'people of color' which is somehow amazingly not the same as colored people.<br><br>David: I was not referring to you in the last part of my 'rant' :)<br><br>Thick skin people, develop it, groom it, wear it, live it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-23901129903533145122007-05-24T10:32:00.000-07:002007-05-24T10:32:00.000-07:00I use the word black quite comfortably and I spend...I use the word black quite comfortably and I spend a fair bit of time with black people. I've not met any who object to the word. It's obviously different in the States, as Lord Nazh points out.<br><br>I don't agree with blaming ourselves for the sins of our forefathers, but on the other hand, we shouldn't blindly carry on in bahviour patterns which originate with their social attitudes that we now condemn.<br><br>We DO need to be aware of the context of our language.<br><br>I don't like the term African-American, because I actually think it implies that black americans are not quite American. It had relevance for the Marcus Garvey movement, but most black americans today aren't following his ideas, they have found better ways.<br><br>Eve is partly right about culture. Culture of course is what it is all about.<br>If I was American I would NEVER say what I say several times a day. 'Going out for a fag now.'<br><br>E-K, I have some sympathy for your points about our own cultural sensibilities being ignored. I feel that expecially as a Catholic, who's faith is considered fair game for total ridicule.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com