tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post1871541086861349683..comments2023-10-10T05:17:55.737-07:00Comments on Crushed By Ingsoc: When Mothers Slay Their YoungCrushedhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02479751225625007588noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-84367578428004851272008-09-22T16:00:00.000-07:002008-09-22T16:00:00.000-07:00Crushed: I disagree with your position but I found...Crushed: I disagree with your position but I found this an incredibly powerful post. I don't think its the kind of post to which you respond with an argument- I can't take away with consoling words or logical chains what you felt, and nor will I try. The one thing I do think is that abortion can inflict terrible damage- it obviously did on your relationship with this woman- and the way you tell that story is so good because I can see her point of view as well as yours. This is a very impressive post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-64213247668272199112008-09-22T17:40:00.000-07:002008-09-22T17:40:00.000-07:00Agree with gracchi, I can see both sides.However, ...Agree with gracchi, I can see both sides.<br>However, for me personally and am not throwing stones at anyone, abortion is an easy way out to excuse irresponsibility. Really unless it's rape or an abnormality or severe risk to mother and or child, there is no excuse for abortion. It gives those who are careless a way of resolving their carelessness. There is no excuse for unwanted pregnancy, the pill is not 100% safe, so if you dont want a baby, take the extra precautions. A bunch of cells? Well cells are a living thing, as tissue it is still living, it is the beginning of life. I do feel for those who are faced with rape, incest and risks involved, not those who dont give a dam and dismiss it as easily as getting an abortion. Sorry for such a long reply but I dont agree on abortions in the first instance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-769607935457432432008-09-22T19:24:00.000-07:002008-09-22T19:24:00.000-07:00That is a very ugly title and it sets the stage fo...That is a very ugly title and it sets the stage for what follows. <br><br>Setting aside the personal story, which is a very powerful one indeed, I have to say in theory I am pro-choice but personally I could never do it. Once you have had a child I don't see how any woman could. I suppose if you never had a child it might be easy to say it's just a bunch of cells. But that bunch of cells has the potential to be just like your Johnny or your Sarah, how is it possible to stop that development.<br><br>Yes I do believe it is far too easy to get an abortion and do think it should be restricted to a much narrower set of circumstances. It is quite sobering to think that in one year there are more abortions performed than live births in a local hospital here. <br><br>I don't think too many women actually do have an abortion without some emotional aftereffects but I am sure that many people never think of the effect it has on the potential father and you have put forth one man's feeling on the subject very powerfully.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-38637180011230578982008-09-22T23:05:00.000-07:002008-09-22T23:05:00.000-07:00Well said JMB.Well said JMB.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-72103848783673475362008-09-23T03:38:00.000-07:002008-09-23T03:38:00.000-07:00this is one subject which has always conflicted me...this is one subject which has always conflicted me...while for myself it wouldn't be a choice...i cannot see that i have a right to take the choice from someone else...i have been with women before having the procedure done who were rape victims and even though it was spawned through a violent, horrid act...it still affected the women years later and conflicted them...i don't know if there is a right answer to this one...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-10339466104725102882008-09-23T07:19:00.000-07:002008-09-23T07:19:00.000-07:00I am guilty and I do suffer after effects of my ac...I am guilty and I do suffer after effects of my actions - I was young - my guy was not suprotive, nor did he want it and I was alone my family being far away. having said that and having done what I did, I can tell you my life changed on that day - and when I do look into my children's eyes I often times wonder what if. I wrote about it here: http://up4more2.blogspot.com/2008/07/choices.html<br><br>I cannot call a do-over - but if I could I certainly would. <br>CatAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-3465555299251965682008-09-23T08:26:00.000-07:002008-09-23T08:26:00.000-07:00I am pro choice. I have to admit that I don't like...I am pro choice. I have to admit that I don't like the title that you have used in this post, but that's just me. Very, very powerful post. I do believe that men should have more of a say in what happens with their unborn child, it's ashame they don't. I have a friend who almost lost his little girl because the mother was not capable of making responsible decisions. He now has her and is raising her without the Mother in the picture...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-11195708910025102552008-09-23T13:22:00.000-07:002008-09-23T13:22:00.000-07:00Gracchi- It does kind of soften over time, though ...Gracchi- It does kind of soften over time, though it was still almost two yours before I dealt with it in Confession.<br>I think it's prob one of the few times I can say that receiving absolution felt like it physically lifted a burden from me.<br><br>I think it's promoted too easily. I do agree, I don't think either of us were ready to be parents- certainly not parents together, but there are many couples out there crying out for a child to adopt.<br><br>Nunyaa- I would agree, indeed so would Haeckel. He said that the most important thing in life is not birth, death or marriage, but gastrulation.<br><br>How the ball of cells starts to split. Within a matter of weeks, there is a difference betwen a protostome and a deuterostome embryo and a little over two months, then the embryo has already started to be identifiable as the species it will become.<br><br>I this case, it did take place before 11 weeks, but certainly I don't think abortion should EVER be tolerated after that point. By this time, it is defined not as an embryo, but as a foetus. It has developing human organs. Prior to then, you could argue that it is not distinguishable from any other animal embryo, not that I'm entirely convinced that loophole improves matters.<br><br>jmb- I've called it worse over the years.<br>I was always pro-life anyway, due to my faith partly, but this made it real.<br><br>Of course, all human life is just a bunch of cells, if you think about it. Where do you draw the line?<br><br>I'm no moral crusader, but I think people forget that unless you were raped, you DID have a choice. You CHOSE to take part in an activity the biological purpose of which is baby making- and it's a pretty effective process. And that makes you responsible for the outcome, whatever it is.<br><br>I think it does affect most women, yes.<br><br>What I do find irritating is how most people assume the father probably pushed the woman to have it. It's not always the case.<br><br>Sometimes when I'm in a bitter mood and I'm railing against the world I still find myself saying 'Yeah, well, life ain't like that. It ain't all dreams and happiness. It's about steel doors clanking shut and dead babies.'<br><br>I do have a bitter streak in me in somewhere. I just try to move on.<br><br>Daisy- I wonder though, has any woman who changed her mind last minute and NOT had the abortion ever regretted it?<br>I would say, probably not.<br><br>Cat- I hope the post didn't offend you. It wasn't meant as a a judgement on people who've madfe the choice- more on the cultural acceptance of something that people just don't think through.<br><br>It messed my head up for a long time. And in a real way, it messed parts of my life up that can never be repaired.<br><br>Reeny- You don't realise it till you're in that situation. It's quite bizarre. The state will hound fathers to death in some cases to get maintenance from them, but they have no rights to save the life of their unborn child.<br><br>I was never consulted. You'd have thought at some point I would at least have ben asked by someone in a position of authority, but no.<br><br>And you've have thought, bearing in mind what jmb rightly points out as well, there would be more of an aftercare service to help people get through this kind of trauma.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-20938406834598909272008-09-23T14:18:00.000-07:002008-09-23T14:18:00.000-07:00Weak male attached to an alpha female with new com...Weak male attached to an alpha female with new competitor on the way.<br>Mmm....<br>She enacts the Final Solution. Every time.<br><br>I almost married a woman older than me (by a few months but it signifies a difference of mindset) - and in pre-wedding counselling she revealed she would never have children. I looked at her and realised she always wanted to be the child. I was to look after her and only her.<br><br>Weak male that was me. She saw me coming.<br><br>So, I resolved to find myself. <br><br>Life does not begin at conception but at inception.<br>Two selfish people, like the female who sees the relationship confirmed in astrological stars and the male confirmed in his pants does not make a good start. Her first sense of glorification of being lusted by the male soon turns to her having contempt at being so easily able to confuse and play him to her advantage. Whilst he wakes up to the thing of beauty turning into his mother... she further change into the muther of all creatures.<br><br>Women are not bars of chocolate. They are conscious beings of great potential. Treat her honorably for she will not forget, and if she's lucky, when she's ninety she might forgive to discover heaven.<br><br>As a man you should find your natural born insight which should be able to bring the woman with her natural born intuition to a place of love.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-35128418240333828852008-09-23T15:29:00.000-07:002008-09-23T15:29:00.000-07:00This was very sad. There are no winners in any of ...This was very sad. There are no winners in any of it. Poor Claire, poor you and poor little life that didn't get to be born - it's a damn horrible subject.<br><br>But. You cannot take away the rights of a woman to own her body and what happens to it. What about your rights? as a Father?<br>That's the thing that no one can do a thing about - it is the woman's choice solely because it is her body that carries the baby.<br><br>I am sorry this happened to you, I really am.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-61000635651888795902008-09-23T15:30:00.000-07:002008-09-23T15:30:00.000-07:00p.s I know a few women who have had abortions. One...p.s I know a few women who have had abortions. One of my friends had one over TWENTY years ago and she still cries over the baby that never was born. She still hurts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-74913558017823604662008-09-24T04:36:00.000-07:002008-09-24T04:36:00.000-07:00A very powerful post. I agree some people go along...A very powerful post. I agree some people go along this route far too easily without thinking through what they are doing. I should think it is always bound to have a lasting emotional effect and I don't understand why some women don't realise that the decision would affect the father too!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-52693965788492100352008-09-24T08:42:00.000-07:002008-09-24T08:42:00.000-07:00There was a really gross thing about abortion on R...There was a really gross thing about abortion on Radio 4 only yesterday... they were saying a 12 week old baby can be extracated through a 0.5 cm wide tube "because it's all soft tissue" in other words what comes out is baby mush this made me feel so ill I cannot describe itAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-64529217649901888342008-09-24T10:06:00.000-07:002008-09-24T10:06:00.000-07:00Intense post, sir. I am pro-choice, yet I don't kn...Intense post, sir. I am pro-choice, yet I don't know if I could ever go through with it myself, and I thank God I have never had to be in that position.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-80734899130186817492008-09-24T11:19:00.000-07:002008-09-24T11:19:00.000-07:00I don't think we come down hard enough on crime ge...I don't think we come down hard enough on crime generally.<br><br>Paedophiles and rapists should really be made aware that their crime is not socually acceptable.<br><br>I won't demand the death penalty, but solitary confinement for months on end would be too good for them.<br><br>Murderers or those who casually cause grievious bodily harm with a bottle in the face, a knife or a gun, or in a drunken brawl should have their arms broken, and put in solitary confinement while their arms are in plaster.<br><br>And terrorists who plot random murder should have the same, but with no remission.<br><br>As barbaric as it may sound, I really do think that in this day and age there is less excuse for any crime, yet the punishment and time in prison are far too lenient.<br><br>There is no pussy footing about when british troops are entangled in an exchange of fire with the Taliban in Afghanistan. The result is your brains blown out, or your legs blown off by a grenade. Of course british troops may ne able to rely on better medical care when they are on the receiving end.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-2872348732851369002008-09-24T11:55:00.000-07:002008-09-24T11:55:00.000-07:00Kinderling- I can't really comment on your relatio...Kinderling- I can't really comment on your relationship with this woman.<br><br>I can see SOME similarities, esp in your remarks about your partner wanting to always be the child.<br>There was an element of that with Claire. And in fact that kind of worked. I think I'm one of those males who ONLY responds to women they feel protective towards.<br>When it worked, it worked because I felt protective towards her vulnerable side.<br><br>But there was another side, and that's where we clashed. And I can be quite a cold hard person in many ways.<br><br>Life is one long learning curve, I guess.<br>I was still very young then.<br><br>Kate- Winners, losers, I don't know.<br><br>Everything happens for a reason, I guess.<br>It's true that what happened to me later wouldn't have happened had this not happened.<br><br>But then again, I'd be sitting her now after six years of marriage to Claire and I think my life would have ben far more miserable.<br><br>And with less hope for the future.<br><br>I don't think my life now is a waste and yet had this not hasppened, I think it would have been.<br><br>If that makes sense.<br><br>CherryPie- Because it is thrown at them, oushed on them almost. It's not held up as an emergency option if there really is no other solution.<br><br>I know people say that a woman may not be ready for a child and all the other arguments.<br>But there is no law says she has to bring the child up.<br><br>Giving the child up for adoption HAS to be better than depriving it of the life that has alreadsy ben set in motion.<br><br>I've not met a woman yet who had one and didn't at least part of her look back and wonder.<br><br>At least if you give the child up for adoption you can come back when you're ready, should you want to.<br><br>Gledwoos- I know, it's that sort of talk makes me angry.<br>No doubt how the medical staff at Auschwitz used to talk.<br><br>Princess P- Touch wood you never have to be. It's horrible, it really is.<br><br>Every time someone asks if you have children, a part of you registers the question and wants to ignore it.<br><br>Quasar- I don't know, I'm quite against the concept of an eye for an eye, for several good reasons.<br><br>I've met and talked to a couple of life sentence prisoners and I don't believe it did much good for anyone.<br><br>I actually think we should move to a slightly more utiltarian concept.<br><br>I'd aim to break all justice down into three answers; Recompense, rehabilitation, public safety.<br><br>The first bit is simple. Pay back to society. If someone gratuitously commits an offence, but it it is preety certain they did it, not because there's issues need addressing, but because they thought they could get one over, then the community service model is the way forward. Currently thev limit is 200 hours. I'd just scrap the upper limit. Let people do 60,000 hours if need be. It seems far more productive than gaol, methinks.<br><br>Rehabilitation- that's omprtant for most petty criminals. They have issues need addressing, and really the best way is to try cure the problem, treeat it as a disease. Treat them more as disaroders that can be solved. And a lot of them, I think, can be. Shopplifting, crime to fund drug habits etc.<br><br>However, some offenders can't be cured, and I think this goes for most sex offenders and some violent criminals.<br><br>Why let them out at all, when they're incurable?<br><br>I'm of two minds what to here. One side says lock them up somewhere secure, but not brutal. A bit like mental patients are treated. essentially, they come into much the same category.<br><br>But sometimes I wonder. Much as I do deplore the death penalty in eye for an eye justice, the fact is I do agreee with euthanasia for people whose life has become a total misery.<br><br>And I do find myself wondering whether or not in cases such as serial sex offenders, actually putting them down isn't the most humane option.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3334391160365031546.post-7060779968443236312008-09-24T13:32:00.000-07:002008-09-24T13:32:00.000-07:00No offense taken at all this was a view from the o...No offense taken at all this was a view from the other side if you will and it does need to be heard more than it is. CatAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com